One of the next things on Prince August's 'to do' list are SYW hussars. There are already a number of hussars in the Rossbach range, however they do not fit in with the new figures, the Prussian one with carbine is actually quite nice, but a little small, whereas the poses in the French moulds are not to my liking.
I don't know when these will be done, however it is worth having a discussion about what is wanted, before the sculptor starts work?
Prussian Hussars
There is only likely to be one set of hussar moulds, so these will need to be able to cast figures for many nations; consider the Prussians as a starting point as I have some nice pictures.
Within a cavalry units I generally like to have the following figures:
- Officer which is different to the troopers.
- Standard Bearer - hussars did not usually carry standards, but they look good so add one.
- Musician, in this case a trumpeter.
- Trooper.
Uniform and Equipment
In order to cover all 4 figures, one option would be to provide a mould for each, however as there will be separate heads, right arms and carbines this could be done with less moulds, so possibly allowing for more variety in horse poses. Initially just consider two main body types.
Equipped with a wide cross belt. If assembled with a sword arm and carbine hung alongside, this will act as a trooper, alternatively with a suitable arm and no carbine he would make a standard bearer (as was done in the dragoons, which look fine).
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Heads
For the Prussians there are two types of head required, the kolback and the mirliton, so clearly both of these need to be provided.
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Horses
The saddlecloths and leatherwork on the horses of all ranks all look similar (with the 'dog tooth' edging), so the same horses could be used for troopers and command figures.
As the torsos will be attached to the horses we need a minimum of two horse/torso moulds, however for these flamboyant types it might be worth asking PA to produce 3 to add some variety?
For the hussars I think the horses should be in a dynamic pose such as a canter or even a gallop, whilst still trying to maintain some of that 'old school' feel of the old Holger Erikkson figures.
Austrian Hussars
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Russian Hussars
The Russians were again similar but with a couple of differences compared with the Prussians.
The saddle cloth, like the Austrians, they just had the plain striped edging
Reading both Osprey MAA 271 and Kronoskaff it appears they may not have been issued with carbines, although image 1 has a suspension belt to support one, and Kronoskaff states that one source says they had them. On that basis I think I would add them, however if anyone feels strongly enough that they should not carry them, then the whole unit could be made using the officer horse/torso with no cross belt.
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In Conclusion - at last
So after all that waffle, what do I think PA should consider making - I'm not sure how they will sell these - it might be best as a multiple pack like the dragoons?
Horse/torso
All saddle cloths to have simple wide stripe on the edge which will serve Austrians and Russians and act as a guide for the Prussian 'dog tooth'.
1 x Officer/trumpeter horse/torso with no carbine cross belt. This figure can be used for all officers and most musicians. It can also be used for Russians with no carbine, but unit will have little variation.
2 (or perhaps just one) x Trooper/standard with wide carbine/standard belt to be used for troopers and standard bearers. If two poses can be done it will give more variety in the horses.
1 x Austrian trumpeter/officer horse/torso with no carbine cross belt, this figure is specific for Austrians. (It would possibly also make a Hungarian mounted officer).
Heads
The general requirement is for kolbacks and mirlitons.
The 'Austrian' mould needs a tricorne.
Arms
All arms need to be interchangeable with a round socket to allow the angle to be changed, with:
- Sword pointing ahead in 'charge'.
- Arm bent for standard (to be drilled out)
- Trumpet
- Possibly bent arm with sword?
- Possibly arm with carbine like first picture above?
As always your comments would be appreciated - and listened to.
I do not know when PA will be doing the hussar moulds, however i would be useful to have your thoughts - particularly if you are likely to be wanting to buy the moulds.
This seems very thorough. These should also work for the French.
ReplyDeleteThanks, we are currently looking at how best to produce these moulds.
DeleteAny thoughts on the Grenz?
I general, I would like to see an additional trooper figure when it comes to horse-troops: The mounted soldier would be the same like the trooper but the walking horse is a little different. Try to vary the walking horses (leg and head position). With the currasiers, the horse was only one and the same. With the dragoons, PA made it well. In order to limit costs of design, I propose to use the top of trooper data and marry with the data of horse of an officer for example. One need always much more troopers than other functions. With 2 moulds you can produce figures constantly without a trooper mould would get too hot while producing tin soldiers. I suppose that customers who spend the price for 3 moulds would also pay a 4th mould. A squadron of mounted troops would look more alive and realistic if the majority of the trooper horse would not be only one.
ReplyDeleteOtherwise I am very thankful that PA continues to expand the range of SYW moulds whatever the type of mould is. I like them all a lot.
Thanks - is it possible to put a name so that I can recognise comments?
DeleteAs discussed in the blog, the hope is that the hussars will be in a more dynamic pose, with the horse in either a canter or gallop, with the horse in each mould moving at the same speed but with some pose variation.
The difficulty is trying to fit everything into the moulds, if you look at the dragoon trooper mould it is a real squeeze to fit in the horse/body, head, carbine and arm - and the hussar will be just as tight.
I will keep everyone up to date once Chris starts the sculpting.
Any thoughts on the new Grenz?
Yes, for sure. My name is Stefan from Murten (Switzerland)
ReplyDeleteStefan
DeleteThanks for your comments and letting me have your name - can you make it so that you replace the 'Unknown' in the header.
Are you wargaming with these figures?
Hello Steve
DeleteNo, I am not a wargamer. Just like to make tinsoldiers myself with moulds. I also have some old Holger Erikson moulds, but honestly said, these are bad (very undetailed). I have noticed that with the appearence of 40 mm Rossbach serie, detailing has much gone up and since then, PA has excellent moulds. I like the level of detailing. I like this touch of toy soldiers very much compared to modern miniatures, where you can see every fingernail and tooth. With the serie of Karolinger and SYW, it allows me to build up a collection of different european regiments that were so called foreign regiment with swiss soldiers. There were many in France, Savoy, Neaple, few in Austria and Hollande. But of course I like also exotics like the Grenzer I appreciate a lot that a company has the courage to produce them, as it is not exactly mainstream in my opinion. Also with these two series, PA was clever enough - thanks to influence of wargamer - to produce general poses and not very special poses like for example foot soldiers of 40 mm Rossbach. Such special poses are legitimated once you have 40 other. I just hope that these series will continue to expand with more moulds.
Stefan
DeleteThanks - it is good to hear that we are on the right track. The PA range has been very much produced along the lines of what I wanted for my own wargames armies, and luckily there are enough like minded people out there to make the range viable.
When I did Austrian and Prussian Hussars in 40mm I used the Rossbach molds with arms taken from the new range cuirassiers for the trumpeter and standard bearer. I used an older PA normal cavalry trumpeter for the Austrian trumpeter but could also see using the new range dragoon officer with a trumpet arm (in both cases simply painting on the dolman lace). The Rossbach hussar molds are a little goofy but my regiments came out nicely.
ReplyDeleteAs the specifically Austrian trumpeter would be a pretty limited use mold for PA, you might consider a mold with another horse pose perhaps. Food for thought!
I did exactly the same for the trumpeter, however I really don't like the Rossbach(French) hussar poses. I prefer the Rossbach (Prussian) hussar, to which I added the old HE trumpeter which fits nicely, however they are way smaller.
ReplyDeleteIf PA are willing to make it then I think the Austrian trumpeter will be a fine addition, and will also make an Austrian hussar officer in undress, and I will use it as a mounted Hungarian infantry officer.
Hopefully we can get a little variety in the hussars?
You've covered this pretty well.
ReplyDeletePersonally I'd rather have horses trotting than charging, with the option for the sword on the shoulder which was a missed opportunity on the dragoons. An arm holding a carbine would be great, as would a separate sword so we can mix and match to better represent sheathed or drawn swords
I would definitely be happy to pay extra for a fourth mould that gives a little more variety to groups of figures.
Most of all though, I really want to see really well defined braid detail in the same way the grenz were an sculpted, that paints up fantastically. Maybe even have the officer turned sideways in the saddle so the detail is presented to the front really showing off the uniforms.
Whatever though, I'm so happy these are being produced.
Hopefully the marching Grenz will still be a thing? Maybe a loading figure to go with the firing poses would be very welcome
Thanks for your suggestions.
DeleteIf possible it will be better to get 4 moulds as discussed above.
I have suggested the horses are an active trot/canter rather than full gallop.
I agree there was a missed opportunity with the dragoons - I generally assemble them with cuirassier arm with sword on shoulder - which is more work having to do extra castings. there is only really space for one head and arm in each mould, so it might be difficult to fit in an arm with a carbine?
As discussed in the previous post, PA have agreed to do one more Grenz mould. We went for the advancing figure and a drummer which will both add a little variety to the skirmish line, and also allow a close order unit.
Just thinking of other suggestions for you, would it be possible to maybe Include a head with the grenz hussars style hat and maybe the early 18c fur cap that many hussars wore? This would open up the figures to dozens of regiments that all shared very similar uniforms (like the blue kings hussars etc)
ReplyDeleteAlso a bare head with locks would be great and fit in well with the grenz foot figures :)
Thanks for the suggestions.
ReplyDeleteAs discussed above, there is really only space in each mould for a single head, so although it would be nice to add variation I doubt there will be space for anything other than the kolback, mirliton and tricorne.
I agree it would be nice to allow the moulds to be used for a wider time period, however we are struggling to fit in all of the parts needed for the the Seven Years War.
According to Summerfield and Kronoskaff the Grenz hussars wore a kolback similar to the line units, however I have a book by Gyozo Somogyi which shows a head dress similar to the one which is provided in the infantry mould (a kolback without the cloth bag)- so that should be close enough.
From all PA cavalry moulds, I like PA11 (cavalry man charging) best and it appears to me that this is the mould which is most often used by collectors. At this backdrop, I think a similar pose for the Hussards would be most appreciated by PA customers.
ReplyDeleteWhy did PA not pursue the idea of having seperate moulds for the horse and the rider in the 40 mm range ? This concept could even be improved if the front and the back of the horse where interchangeable like it was done in Schildkröt`s Zinnbrigade Napoleonic era horse mould. By the way: I consider the Zinnbrigade Napoleonic era horse to be the best ever designed mould for a 40 mm figures.
Jan (from Berlin Germany)
Jan
ReplyDeleteAs discussed PA are looking at a more dynamic pose for the hussars.
The PA figures are semi-flat, so it is not possible to have the separate rider with the legs either side of the horse. The plan was to have separate horses with the rider slotted in, as was done on he Austrian cuirassiers, however it was found difficult to maintain an accurate fit through multiple stages of the PA mould making process and hand casting to maintain an accurate fit. Feedback also suggested that combined horse and rider castings are more popular, so later models have less parts.
Steve