tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7949706697278532115.post1816727725340700490..comments2024-03-05T16:17:50.684+00:00Comments on Lace Wars in Tin: French Infantry - some more thoughtsSteveMhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09750604219474369883noreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7949706697278532115.post-62142038526557835272015-11-05T16:17:49.491+00:002015-11-05T16:17:49.491+00:00John
Sorry I missed this comment.
Although the h...John<br /><br />Sorry I missed this comment.<br /><br />Although the haversacks may often have been discarded I think that the haversack should be included to make the figures distinctive from the Russians in winter uniform.<br /><br />The sculptor has been doing more work on the French, and I hope to add something to the blog tomorrow.<br /><br />Keep the comments coming.<br /><br />Steve<br /><br /><br />SteveMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09750604219474369883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7949706697278532115.post-37416015309748132462015-10-20T09:28:40.335+01:002015-10-20T09:28:40.335+01:00The haversack was carried on the march but was pro...The haversack was carried on the march but was probably not carried in battle. Most troops disencumbered themselves of their packs before going into action. <br />Iirc the latest research suggests that turnbacks were the norm in the SYW.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14141347610924015952noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7949706697278532115.post-81594500401337103472015-09-16T17:27:25.687+01:002015-09-16T17:27:25.687+01:00oops just realized I never answered this. I think ...oops just realized I never answered this. I think with the French and British the coats were still loose enough and the turnbacks temporary so that they could still be let down in bad weather, both armies, at least as late as 1759/60. It seems though that as Prussian fashion (and economy) became popular the coats started to be cut tighter and loose the ability to be worn open well before the regs caught up. In other words one could live without them. Full coat was probably m8re common on sentry duty or on the march in bad weather or in winter.Ross Mac rmacfa@gmail.comhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04053555991679802013noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7949706697278532115.post-82100363882469234702015-08-11T05:09:48.908+01:002015-08-11T05:09:48.908+01:00One more try, with a different account.
While I h...One more try, with a different account.<br /><br />While I haven't dived in yet, this is a range I am getting quite excited about- the figures have that great balance between toy- and model- soldiers that I find very attractive, and seem to capture the "feel" of the era really well.<br /><br />It's been years since I've tried my hand at casting Prince August figures, but these are splendid, and the opportunity to break out the epoxy putty and try my hand at some conversions is also a draw.<br /><br />While I'm happy to acquire some Austrians and/ or Prussians, the French would be my first love and I would like to see at least an option at some point for infantry with full coats- no turnbacks.<br /><br />While taking on board that this is a SYW range, andI understand that no turnbacks may not have been common in the SYW (if at all) a lot of prospective buyers would, I would think, have the models in mind for earlier wars and for imaginations. Having an option for infantry without turnbacks would simply add greater versatility to the range as a whole.<br /><br />Looking forward to developments with cavalry and artillery (gunners in waistcoats would be an excellent idea).<br /><br /><br />Roberthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07889130893225462338noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7949706697278532115.post-78906442601132600442015-08-03T23:03:23.740+01:002015-08-03T23:03:23.740+01:00Many thanks Steve. This is a really exciting proj...Many thanks Steve. This is a really exciting project. Really looking forward to seeing the cavalry and artillery as well as the French.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11921392327239863864noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7949706697278532115.post-47454800482289003782015-08-03T22:08:06.925+01:002015-08-03T22:08:06.925+01:00Many thanks to all of you for your comments, the g...Many thanks to all of you for your comments, the gist of it seems to be:<br />- When the French are done, do it right<br />- Don't delay the artillery, guns etc<br />- French would be nice soon<br />- Provide heads to make the Cuirassier du Roi<br /><br />Nothing has been decided yet, however IF something is done with the French it will be relatively quick, based on existing poses. I will update the summary at the end of the post, and keep you up to date when I next have a chat with the sculptor.<br /><br />SteveSteveMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09750604219474369883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7949706697278532115.post-9923127333931679952015-08-03T21:50:47.450+01:002015-08-03T21:50:47.450+01:00Rahway
I think what you are saying is that if we ...Rahway<br /><br />I think what you are saying is that if we do the French then we should wait a while and do it right. I agree it needs to be done right, but am still tempted to get the French underway - if it is quick.<br /><br />My thought has always been that we need two infantry figures and a drummer, but have never been sure about what else. <br /><br />Duc de Brouilly has suggested adding an officer who can also act as standard bearer, that might do it ............. if a suitable pose could be sculpted?<br /><br />SteveSteveMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09750604219474369883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7949706697278532115.post-19461470524331279512015-08-03T21:40:42.794+01:002015-08-03T21:40:42.794+01:00Duc de Brouilly
It has to be remembered that the ...Duc de Brouilly<br /><br />It has to be remembered that the idea of the range is to produce 'accurate' figures for the troops who made up the the majority troops of the major nations, and then get reasonably close for the others by swapping heads and/or or painting on detail. The differences between French grenadiers and fusiliers fall into this category.<br /><br />On that basis it should be possible to get close to the Chasseurs de Fischer with the proposed light troops and suitable head.<br /><br />I will try and get PA to fit the cavalry bearskin fitted in somewhere.<br /><br />SteveSteveMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09750604219474369883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7949706697278532115.post-34391453758703155352015-08-03T10:05:11.449+01:002015-08-03T10:05:11.449+01:00This french rangewill be very good!
before or aft...This french rangewill be very good!<br />before or after artillerists , i will bye the whole range!<br /><br />Nco or grenadier in the second mould is equal for me ! The metal flagpoles are a much better idea than a complete tin flag !!<br /><br />best regards<br />paco<br /><br />the multi- head system is realy a plus in this range ! and i prefer standard bearers with metal pools<br /><br /><br />pacofeanorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14627330038400943715noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7949706697278532115.post-19425142236362252012015-08-02T20:27:50.457+01:002015-08-02T20:27:50.457+01:00That seems like a good plan Steve and I agree with...That seems like a good plan Steve and I agree with all the points you make on the details of uniform etc. Might be worth pointing out that although the French infantry and grenadiers wore an identical uniform, their arms and equipment were slightly different: the grenadier carried a curved sabre (rather than a longer straight blade) and also had a noticeably larger a cartridge pouch. You can see these details in the Historex card.<br /><br />Concerning the second/drummer mould, personally I wouldn’t find an NCO particularly useful, I’d rather have another officer. It’s nice to have a variety of officers and if the officer were carrying a spontoon, you’d be able to substitute a flag and that would give you an ensign. (This is what I’ve done with the Karoliner officer). As an alternative, what about doing a specific Grenadier de France figure in this second mould. The uniform is slightly different to the ordinary French infantry in having lapels and button-hole lace on the coat and waistcoat; though I accept these details could painted on. You could then put the bearskin head in this mould and the bonnet de police in the first mould. Just a thought. <br /><br />The Chasseurs de Fischer are another favourite unit but they would merit their own mould; perhaps further down the line.<br /><br />Anyway, it’s really nice to see that the French are in view and the Cuirassier bearskin (with patch and cords?) is just what I'm looking for.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11921392327239863864noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7949706697278532115.post-3787980023872154072015-08-01T11:47:23.999+01:002015-08-01T11:47:23.999+01:00The above post covers quite a bit. Some quick comm...The above post covers quite a bit. Some quick comments:<br /><br />I believe that the range should attempt to provide two complete opposing forces composed of Horse, Foot and Guns before going off in new directions. If the French are going to delay providing artillery for the existing Infantry and planned Cavalry forces the French should be deferred to the future.<br /><br />The suitability of the existing officers to serve as Frenchmen depends on how much detail can be comfortably winked at. The Prussian officer has a prominent sash. The Russian has gauntlets. Both have a rat-tail down their backs.<br /><br />Since the plan calls for the belts to be outside the coat the inference is that the coat will be closed, at least partially. The existing Prussian drummers have open coats with the belts worn underneath the coat.Rahwayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12488589626156732906noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7949706697278532115.post-6980674834451993762015-08-01T10:55:23.536+01:002015-08-01T10:55:23.536+01:00Peter
I agree that there is no need to try and de...Peter<br /><br />I agree that there is no need to try and detail everything, and for the French I do not think there is need to model the lapels - these can be painted on. <br /><br />It is a difficult balance to decide what to do, which is why feedback is welcome; after all PA want to produce moulds which they can sell to collectors like us.<br /><br />The plan for the range is that the figures will make wargames units, so the cavalry will have an officer, standard bearer, musician and trooper for each type. They will however be mult-part, so need some work.<br /><br />I find that in casting from the PA moulds that the bodies are fine with standard metal, but I sometimes have difficulty with the heads, which cast better with the more expensive Model Metal.<br /><br />PA do cast figures for their Karoliner range, and there is quite a discount ((£1.27 from £2.07) for buying in bulk, however I do not think they are selling very well; so currently I do not think there are any plans for this range.<br /><br />Thanks for your comments - keep them coming.<br /><br />Steve<br /><br />.<br /><br />SteveMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09750604219474369883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7949706697278532115.post-46998498943234747912015-08-01T10:29:34.607+01:002015-08-01T10:29:34.607+01:00Ross
The plan was for a similar head to the Russi...Ross<br /><br />The plan was for a similar head to the Russians (see post 15 March); however it might be an idea to steepen the front up a little, similar to the head sculpted for the Austrian cuirassier (see post 9 July).<br /><br />Once the SYW range is reasonably complete, there may be an opportunity to extend the timescale, but that is way off. There are a lot of illustrations of SYW French with no turn backs - do you think it would have been common?<br /><br />SteveSteveMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09750604219474369883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7949706697278532115.post-10839078754766024662015-08-01T09:12:09.534+01:002015-08-01T09:12:09.534+01:00Dear Steve, thank you very much for this post with...Dear Steve, thank you very much for this post with all the questions. <br />As an old fan of PA, coming from Meisterzinn and then PA, I turned away of this ranges because of the lack of flexibility (too few possibilities, no commanding structures) and started with the 3-dimensional figures. I still have some PA figures in action - especially the unforgettable Rossbach-figures of PA. <br />For your French project, do not care about too many details - there were only 2 different infantry types, both with the famous haversack - without lapels and turn backs (French) and with them (mercenaries as Germans, Irish, Scottish, Swiss in French duty). I guess, you could use the Russian infantry type and the Austrian and just modify them. <br />As collector of all 40mm figures there are on the market, I highly estimate a certain flexibilty as changing heads, a separate arm to vary some positions,.... <br />The most I missed in PA was the lack of useful cavalrists, any officers or standard bearers for the cavalry - so we never could mark a regiment. <br />The casting process wasn´t also really making happy, due to r.a. 30% mistakes in casting a figure (always cutted then more capillaries into the mould) - so the fact, that today I can order already casted figures is a luxury for me. <br />What do you think about producing some battle packs of, let us say 20 figures, already casted and ready-to-paint? The advantage of PA is also, that they are cheaper to produce (and also to cast, of course) than the 3-dimensional ones - ideal for collectors of armies.<br /><br />I am very, very happy about the fact, that PA will extend the 40mm range. I regret that we are a smaller community than the 28mm-one. But the advantages of painting a 40mm miniature is unbeatable - I always prefer this scale. So, if I can help more to foster our scale, I will do that.<br />By the way: the semi flat PAs match well with my other, 3-dimensional ranges of Sash&Saber, Trident, Frontrank and Manske - I never had a problem to combine them in a deployment or battle. In particular, the PA Rossbach artillerists are a jewel on my vignettes...<br />I will follow your next steps, especially the cavalry development - I am very curious.<br />Thank you for all your efforts.<br />Peter<br />http://scheckssyw.blogspot.de<br />Scheckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15069668539351098100noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7949706697278532115.post-45763519607282288262015-07-31T21:17:10.046+01:002015-07-31T21:17:10.046+01:00I would think artillery and staff first.
Interes...I would think artillery and staff first. <br /><br />Interesting to note that both of those watercolor prints are of troops in Canada. Not sure it matters. <br /><br />Also note that one of the drummers does have turnbacks so might not be necessary to do a special drummer, at least not up front. It is a shame about no coat without turnback for WAS and Fontenoy but understandable given SYW tag.<br /><br />Will the tricorne have the blunt, high upturned front as here?Ross Mac rmacfa@gmail.comhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04053555991679802013noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7949706697278532115.post-1027282264162453002015-07-31T20:56:40.740+01:002015-07-31T20:56:40.740+01:00Steven
Thanks for posting, this is the sort of fe...Steven<br /><br />Thanks for posting, this is the sort of feedback I am looking for.<br /><br />The suggested one or two mould(s) should be all that is needed to build the whole of the French infantry and cavalry; based on the releases for the Prussians, Austrians and Russians; and so open up the SYW range to anyone wanting French.<br /><br />If these moulds are made after the initial cavalry the delay to the artillery etc. should not be too much, as the figures are in the 'standard' poses, and the heads modifications of Austrians and Russians. <br /><br />(Incidentally, an original proposal was to have a generic 'Lace Wars' range, and avoid the need to say that for instance a French officer can be made using a Prussian officer's body and a Russian officer's head, but it was thought 'Seven Years War' would be more commercially viable.)<br /><br />Thanks again<br /><br />SteveSteveMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09750604219474369883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7949706697278532115.post-15767024548410197652015-07-31T19:48:54.398+01:002015-07-31T19:48:54.398+01:00Nice idea but should be down the line. I think th...Nice idea but should be down the line. I think that artillerists and guns should be the priority after the cavalry to finish basic armies and allow complete games to be run. Adding more countries right now just delays this.Steven Marthinsenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17649392095405519276noreply@blogger.com